Testing Unschoolers

The pandemic was during a testing year for us, homeschool-wise. NY state has pretty strict reporting and testing laws, compared to, say, NJ, where you just let them know you're homeschooling and they don't ask what you're teaching or how it's going.

Despite the strictness, NYS still has laws that are considerate of unschooling. You aren't required to test until 5th grade. That means if your children haven't learned to read by age 10 or so (which is normal for unschoolers), that's not a problem. (Even in those cases, there are approved testers and tests that can work with that.)

With the pandemic, we haven't had to test in 2 years. So we haven't yet had to engage with the academic standards "the state" thinks children that age "should" have. 

This year, Jack, who is born in one of those "can go either way" months, decided maybe he wanted to be in the younger grade. When he was 5, he was reading, so I popped him to first grade. But in camp he chose to be in the younger grade, and now he wasn't sure which way to go. So I submitted that he'd be repeating the grade.

They asked me why.

So we decided to test Jack and see where he is. If he gets his 33rd percentile of his grade level, then we can keep him as is. If not, that is justification, and we'll hold him back. (You can still get under 33rd percentile and remain at grade level, but that's a different topic.)

A few observations about testing:

• Jack didn't really know fractions before this test. So we took an hour and I taught them to him, and he understood it pretty quickly, even though he needs some practice doing them. As an unschooler, I think it's kind of silly and feel with a child like Jack, who is mathematical, then he can wait until he wants to learn it and it will be quick. (He wanted to learn it when he discovered fractions were on the test. But in terms of long term life skills, he'll probably really learn fractions when he needs them, later, and this was just more playing around and seeing a bit about how they work.)
  
  
• My niece saw him taking the test and said, "I hope you don't fail!" Jack looked puzzled, like he had no idea what she was talking about.
  I realized that there is no failure in homeschool. There is no stress about failure, no thinking about failure, no worry about failure. It's just not on the radar. To Jack, testing is something we do for legal reasons and it gives no actual information on his true academic process nor progress, nor his value as a student or person. It got me thinking about all the times in school I worried about failing, how often I had that sick feeling during a test or after a test. And about children worrying about failing. 
  In homeschool, if you get the answer wrong or don't understand something, it just means you do it again until you do understand it or acquire the skill.
  
  
• For the first section of the test, I peeked a bit at Jack's answers as he wrote them. I estimate he got about half of them correct.
  When he finished, I asked him if it felt like it was suitable for his grade level or not. Was it very difficult? Super easy? He said it felt appropriate for where he was. It wasn't so easy but it wasn't very hard. He said, "I think I did well."
  My college aged child remarked, when I relayed this to her, that in LIFE, getting 50% of something right with no preparation is considered "doing well."
  
  
• I noticed a big difference in myself and my attitude regarding testing. I've been homeschooling for about 25 years now, and experience makes a huge difference in confidence and in philosophy. I remember so clearly worrying about every answer my kids got wrong and how, afterwards, I made a point of going over the question so that they'd have that so-important information about comma usage or decimals.
  But as I was looking over Jack's shoulder, watching him get the answer wrong, I kept thinking, "Meh, he'll have naturally learned that by the time he's an adult." or "No big deal, he can easily learn that when he wants."

Testing

So this is Elazar's first year testing.  According to NYS homeschool law, the annual assessment must be from a list of tests every other year starting in 4th grade (and every single year in high school). 

The child must get 33rd percentile or above.

If the child doesn't get 33rd percentile, the child can demonstrate a "year of growth" by getting the same percentile the next year, on next year's test.  If he gets 10th percentile on the 5th grade test, and then 10th percentile on the 6th grade test, then he achieved a year of growth.

So the standards seem to leave a lot of wiggle room for unschooling.

I showed Elazar a sample question, which he didn't understand.  I told him it was like a riddle.  He said, "Oh! So tests are like a bunch of riddles."

The test is six sections.  He does one section a day, at the same time as Chen.  I sat next to him during the test.  Chen gets extra time from her 504, and Elazar needed extra time, too.  One of these days I have to call the special ed dept and see about 504 plans for homeschoolers.  Eventually, Elazar is going to have to get tested.  Right now I'm planning to wait until at least 7th grade, possibly 9th, so that he can actually sit through the tests.

He did okay reading.  Reading so much in a row is not something he is used to doing.  I could see that he definitely had some gaps in comprehension.  Not so much in the stories.  He more didn't understand what the questions were asking or what the choices were saying.  This didn't bother me much because he comprehended the gist of the actual paragraphs.  He didn't know some of the grammar, which I'm sure he'll pick up as he continues through life.  He didn't know some of the vocabulary. 

Math was interesting.  He's been 100% unschooled.  He has never been taught math.  The question was how to handle the test.  In theory, I could look at the test in advance and teach him the math beforehand.  But I didn't bother.  I did have to explain to him that 4/7 means "four pieces out of seven" and once I did that, he was able to do the fractions.  He understood immediately that meant he should add or subtract the numerator and leave the denominator the same.  He did have some trouble with 2 x 1/4.  I think he got that one wrong. 

Much of the test was subtraction of 4-digit numbers and division of 4-digit by 1-digit.  These drove him bonkers.  In the beginning, he was happy to do it.  But he was calculating it on his fingers and he got weary of it quickly.  I showed him how to use scrap paper.  Interestingly, he intuitively knew to carry the one.  But I did have to explain to him about borrowing 10 when he couldn't subtract a larger number from the smaller number.

All of the decimals were a whiz for him because they were all like dollars and cents, and most of his math is dollars and cents. 

He didn't know what the long division house was (I didn't know what it is called, and I just googled "what's the long division house" and it's called a viniculum).  So I just said the inside is the cookies and the outside is the amount of people who get cookies.  He did all right with those in the beginning and then he got worn out. 

It took him double time to complete the test and he was guessing the longer problems by the end. 

Interestingly, this kind of math will rarely come up for him.  In this society, he can use a calculator for these kinds of things.  I was able to see that he has a great mathematical mind, a good sense of how things work mathematically, and he'll get along just fine with a calculator. 

We have one more section left.  He didn't enjoy today's section, but until now he's enjoyed it to the point where he reminded me each day that we have to do the test.

When Strangers Quiz Your Children

I just drove a half hour with my three boys in the back seat.  They got along pretty decently, no major fighting.  Lots of arguing and tussling.  Why don't regular cars come with that limo glass panel that slides open and closed so the driver can't hear what's going on in the back!! 

Last week, I took Jack (2nd/3rd grade) to an allergy doctor.  The doctor was a frum guy, and when he saw me speaking Hebrew to Jack, he spoke to him in Hebrew, too.  Happily, it was one of those situations where my kids actually understand Hebrew--he spoke with a strong American accent. 

Upon discovering that Jack was homeschooled, he proceeded to do what so many doctors have done--he began quizzing Jack about what he learns and knows.  Jack can actually read and do math somewhat on grade level--which has not always been the case with unschooling.  He hesitated about Chumash, and actually blanked on the question "Do you know how to say elephant in Hebrew?"  (It's so much easier to translate "pil" than to be asked to produce the Hebrew word...)

I let most of it play out, keeping a pleasant smile on my face.  Afterwards, I asked Jack how he liked the doctor (he's introverted, so the major achievement here was looking the doctor in the face and answering his questions in a decibel the doctor could actually hear) and Jack commented on how the doctor asked him so many questions.

And it's true, as a homeschooler, I've found that doctors often ask my children questions.  They want to "make sure" my kids are being educated.  Or maybe they are just curious.  And, since I unschool and the younger grades are frequently spent mostly playing, my kids very often don't know the answers.  I've sat there placidly as my children didn't know Judaic bekius, simple math problems, geography, history, science, you name it--and my kids have not known the answer to it.

The only time we had slight vindication was when Chana told the pediatrician she was planning to go to Japan in the summer and he asked, somewhat satirically, how her Japanese was.  And he was absolutely floored when she said, "Well, it's mediocre; not as good as I would like, but I hope that the trip will improve it."

I used to be incredibly stressed out when my kids were being quizzed.  I worried that they didn't know the answers.  I worried homeschooling was failing.  I worried they'd feel bad about themselves for not knowing.

As I got more confident about homeschooling, I trusted that it was OK that they didn't know the answers at age 10.  I also felt that if I didn't exude stress that they don't know the answers, the kids probably wouldn't be unduly disturbed that they don't know the answers.  (And the doctors always told them the answers, so it was kind of like having a mini homeschooling tutoring session thrown in for free in addition to the doctor appointment.)

Chana's first limudei kodesh test

Chana did not really study for the test.  She has also ceased to take notes in class (I think because she is finding it hard to distinguish between what needs to be written down and what doesn't).  The night before the test, she said she couldn't find the other perush besides Rashi on a certain pasuk.  I emailed the teacher, who in a timely manner wrote back that it was Rashbam, and I went through both Rashi and Rashbam with Chana.  That was the extent of my helping her study, even though I asked her if she wanted to review the pesukim or meforshim with me.  Although she did not know the translations of the pesukim and meforshim fluently, she felt strongly that she did not want to use her time reading them over and over until she knew them, or trying to memorize the translations.  She also asked me about what would be appropriate if she didn't understand what to do or didn't know the answers.  I suggested she call the teacher over and ask for clarification and assured her that writing things like "This Ramban is not ringing a bell" would be fine.

She came home positive about the test experience, said she knew some answers and not others, and that she used the words "devilishly great" to describe Yosef, and we talked about the nuances of the adverb "devilishly."   She told me about a chemistry joke she wrote at the end for the teacher.

I was in school when she got the test back, and I saw from the teacher's face that she wasn't sure if she should talk to me or not.  We gathered for a short, impromptu parent teacher conference (one of the benefits of me working at the school where my daughter goes).  She had written by Chana's test score: See Me.  When Chana spoke to her, she asked Chana if Chana had studied, and Chana had sort of shrugged and said yes.  I said, "Not especially, other than that Rashbam I asked you about."  She asked Chana if Chana wanted help studying and Chana said, "No."  Then Chana asked her what a passing grade is.  The teacher said, "Um, I think it's 65."  And Chana said, "Okay, so then we're good, right?" (Later, Chana said to me, "Why would they have a passing grade if that's not the mark where below that is a problem and above that is fine?")

So I asked if Chana seems to be participating in class and gaining from the in class experience.  The teacher said yes.  I asked if she minded Chana's grade, or felt that Chana needs to improve her grades in order to be in the class.  And she said that she thinks there is a benefit to studying for the tests and being able to do well on them, but if Chana is okay and I'm okay, then she's okay.  I mentioned that this has no relevance to Chana's future college plans, so her grades are largely irrelevant.  I asked if I could see Chana's test, and the teacher gave it to me so that I could bring it home and go over it.

Afterwards, I did a lot of thinking about if there is a benefit to Chana studying and doing well on the tests.  I mentioned to Chana that if she wants college recommendations, and she is barely passing the tests, that might affect what kind of recommendation they would write.  She scowled and said that if she was concerned about college recommendations, she wouldn't ask a teacher from 9th grade and she would apply herself more.

Then I spoke to her about the value of studying for the test.  Which basically means reviewing the pesukim and mefarshim until they are fluent and she understands them.  Chana is not fully convinced that having Chumash skills is valuable, and she definitely doesn't want to spend her precious time on that.  However, I think she did come to understand that there is a value to that (though she is not interested in it), that the teacher is trying to achieve that through the tests she gives, and that this is a goal of the class separate from what she gains merely through sitting in class.

Then, in a practical sense, we went through the test.  Some of the questions I knew the answers to, but some I didn't.  I suggested to Chana that she write down the pasuk and which mefarshim the teacher does on each pasuk, and the diburei hamatchil of each perush.  Then, if she feels like studying, at least we will know what to study.

She mentioned that a girl is switching out.  She asked if it was really true that people switch out of a class they like because they are worried about their grades.  We talked about the fact that as a homeschooler, she has the freedom to stay in a higher level class if she feels she is gaining from it, rather than being concerned about her grades.  Other students are worried about getting into college and many times they feel it looks better to have an A in an easier class than a C in a harder class.  I said that ironically, colleges end up really liking homeschooled students because they find that homeschoolers are very concerned with knowledge more than other factors.

This is something I heard about in just about every parent teacher conference in Sarah's high school, too.  All the teachers praised her for being interested in the knowledge and not the grades.  They spoke about how unusual it is.  And yet, when GPA and test grades are what colleges are looking at, it makes sense for that to be what students focus on.

in support of tests

Chana has been studying for the NYS common core algebra regents.  There is more to study but the test is tomorrow.  I think that the experience of studying has been valuable.  Learning to understand what the questions are asking and learning how to do the questions and doing them over and over until she began to get those types of questions correct has definitely sharpened Chana's algebraic skills.  It has infuriated her to the point of declaring hatred of math and to the point where she has refused to look at math for another year.  It has also gotten her thinking about math.  She finds herself thinking about math problems at odd moments.  She said, "Annoyingly, I'm beginning to see the world mathematically.  I just looked at something and thought: 'That's a parabola.'  Aargh!"

If we had time to study more Chana's skills would probably improve even further.  I think even at this point she is ready to go on to algebra 2 and would be fine.  She might need reminders of how to do things, but conceptually she understands the prerequisite algebra and can perform the mechanics.  If she had drilled even more, it might become more automatic.

I was in a lot of conflict when Chana was experiencing a lot of pain and stress trying to learn how to take the test.  I wasn't sure if it was a good idea to stick it out and see it through.  After having sat three times for 3 hours and practiced the 3 existing tests, I think Chana will hopefully not be too stressed taking it.  I still think that Chana will get stuck on some of the long questions even though with some prompting and hand holding she would know how to do it.  But there is no hand holding in the test.  Will the test be an accurate reflection of her mathematical knowledge?  In some ways yes and in some ways no.

We are fortunate to have the luxury of the test being optional and of it not having any major impact on her life.  After this, I'm going to give her a long break.  Even though I'm kind of excited to share algebra 2 with her.  If I can ever convince her to try it.

Update on Scholarship test

Chana begged me to allow her to pull an all-nighter on Motzei Shabbos so she could finish the animation she was working on.  I said no, she has to go to bed by midnight so she has enough sleep before the test.  I suggested she wake up at 5am if she wanted to get some animation in.  She didn't.

She took a calculator to the test but said that it was easier to do the math without the calculator.  But that she didn't get any of the multiple choice answers.  So she guessed.  And she guessed on most of the questiosn.  Except ones where you had to fill in answers.  Which she left out.  It was a 3 hour test and she finished in an hour and 15 minutes.  She did not seem stressed or upset that she didn't know the answers.  She said if high school is for going to learn the answers to these questions, it's going to be boring.  She said that she didn't much see the point of her waking up and sitting through that.  She's probably right.

Interesting is the difference between her as an 8th grader taking a test and me as an 8th grader taking a test.  She doesn't feel it's an especially meaningful indicator of her value or of the value of her education.  Homeschoolers do tend towards skills and knowledge later, mostly because they are busy playing and because it doesn't make a huge difference in the long run.  Sort of like learning to read at age 3 or age 7, or learning to walk at 9 months or 16 months.

She's been animating all day and it's almost time for me to put the boys to bed and I'm not going to be very in the mood to do schoolwork after that.

I was still going back and forth this morning about whether or not Chana should take the scholarship exam for high school.  Making a list of pros and cons:

pros: If Chana does well, it will give the administration insight into her abilities.  This happened to Sarah when she took the BJE exam.  I had told the principal that I didn't want her in the Hebrew honors classes.  She wasn't especially motivated to learn Torah and I didn't think the intense atmosphere that required a lot of studying would help.  She agreed, but a few weeks later when she got the results of the BJE exam she said she hadn't realized how smart Sarah was and she wanted her in the Honors secular track.  This led to a lot of academic satisfaction on Sarah's part in high school (and the Judaic middle track [out of 5 tracks] was perfect for her since that track had intelligent thinkers who were not bogged down by test anxiety).

cons: Chana does not have the test experience that Sarah did.  Chana is slower and less confident on tests.  Might this cause her unnecessary pain and anxiety?

I really wasn't sure.  I asked the principal today.  Her primary concern was that if the test was stressful for Chana, it would create an unnecessary anxiety towards school and tests.  But she said she thinks it's pretty straightforward, and worth it for Chana to take.  And it includes a lot of Yediot Klaliot that Chana will probably know.  I said, "Actually, Chana probably won't know them."

So Chana will take the exam.  She's not thrilled about waking up for a 9am exam.  But she's not overly concerned about the test.

I googled "yediot klaliot" and found a set of online flash cards.  As I suspected, Chana does not know most of these.

I do think that general knowledge is a good thing.  And important.  (Though due to Seth Godin I think we have more flexibility than ever before because of google.)  But although many educators would be horrified that an 8th grader is missing so much basic knowledge, an unschooler knows that the motivated acquisition of knowledge is so quick, so efficient, and so easy, that gaps like these are really nothing to worry about.

I have the luxury of a 5.5 year age gap between my children (it didn't feel like a luxury when it was happening).  Sarah is in her second year of college.  It was nerve-wracking when she was an 8th grader who seemed not very interested in thinking and learning.  But the cognitive and intellectual leaps that go on during the high school years are incredible.  If you unschool and raise your children with the confidence that they can acquire the information or skills when they are interested, they will be happy to do so.  When they are interested or want them as a means to something they are interested in.

math and testing

We finished most of the algebra program I was doing with Chana (I skipped the last two parts because I don't think they are on the regents) and I bought a pamphlet of tests for us to work on.  I may have mentioned that Chana has only taken about 5 tests in her life.  I used to test Sarah every year, but when Chana veered more towards unschooling (not reading much between kindergarten and 4th grade, or not doing math between 4th and 7th grade) it didn't make sense to test, especially when NYS homeschool laws, despite being just about the strictest in the country, are designed to give flexibility to unschooling as a legitimate educational approach.

So from October to January in 7th grade, Chana learned fractions, positive and negative integers, percents, etc.  Then we started algebra.  That took us a little under a year to cover, and now I figured we'll take from January to May to study for the regents.  Since she has to learn how to take the test.  Plus there are gaps in what she learned and what is on the common core algebra regents.

So far we've done 5 questions in 3 days.  I have to explain to her what the question means, and show her that she already knows how to do the math.  (Some questions cover topics that have nothing to do with algebra, like quartiles, which is statistics.)  She has to learn the testing lingo.  Today she was practically in tears.  There was a problem that I thought was pretty straightforward, but she thought it was overwhelming.

But that's why I've set aside a few months to help her get used to it.

But now that I'm thinking about chemistry and geometry for next year, I have the luxury of thinking about how to learn it so that she understands it for its own sake, to enjoy it, and to not be bound by any type of testing.  I still think it is valuable for her to learn how to take this test, but I don't think it's as valuable as people think it is.

Tests notoriously:

• cause students to mainly focus on learning for the test
• lead students to ignore deeper understanding in favor of what will help them succeed on a test
• create an artificial timeline of learning and "covering" material that will be on the test
• stop students from concentrating on true understanding, and motivate cramming information for short term and then forgetting it within 24 hours
• encourage learning to take the test rather than learning the actual material
• don't accurately indicate the level of mastery for people who are poor test takers
• cause anxiety or an overfocus on what will be on the test and distract them from true learning

I was going to spend some time reviewing Hebrew grammar with Chana for the scholarship test for high school on Sunday.  But now I'm wondering if she should take the test.  I do not think that her performance on this test will be an accurate representation of her knowledge, her abilities, and her skills.  And if Problem #5 in the algebra review booklet is any indication, the questions might cause her pain and stress.  To what end?

I thought it would give her a sense of what types of things a 9th grader knows.  But I remember that Sarah failed just about all of the first couple of tests in many subjects in 9th grade.  She had to learn how to take notes, how to study, how to memorize, and focus on things that weren't interesting.  If Chana is so unfamiliar with the test taking culture, how will this test be a positive experience or have any benefit?

tests

One of the things that kids hate most about school is tests.  This is possibly (aside from social issues) what causes the most stress.  (Or grades, and grades are determined by test scores).

Recently, I watched a 10 year old girl before a Navi test.  The test was on 4 perakim.  She was responsible for pshat inside, as well as certain bekius questions.

Reading through the material once took about an hour.  Reviewing it enough times so that she would be able to answer those questions from memory would be another couple of hours.  There were tears and late night arguments.

What does studying like this achieve? 

There is a debate amongst educators as to whether there is not much point to putting mental energy into memorizing facts that can be easily looked up (Seth Godin, Stop Stealing Dreams, Chapter 69, for example), or whether having facts at our fingertips is a vital component of knowledge and wisdom.  However you stand on this argument (and I tend towards the former, being a googlholic myself as well as a former knowledge-gobbler), we still must ask the question: Does studying for tests in this manner actually lead to the desired outcome of having more information/knowledge?

I remember reading about some studies that although students cram a tremendous amount of information into their short term memory, within 24 hours after the test, they have "dumped" it, and they no longer remember most of it.  

I mentioned to Sarah that personally, I feel that I retained a fairly large percentage of material that I studied for, and she said, "Mommy, that's because you learn by reading.  I'm an auditory learner and I don't remember most of what I study."  I believe that I also had a vested interest in appearing smart and in knowing things, so I had emotional energy driving me to remember facts.  I remember when I went to Israel for the year, there were no tests.  I had a moment of concern, wondering if I would remember what I learned, with no incentive to review and no time spent going over it until I "knew it."  But I was relieved that there would be learning without the pressure of testing.

The popular TV show "Are you smarter than a 5th grader" emphasized just how few of our adult society members actually remember the facts from the 5th grade curriculum.

So we have children spending hours doing a painful activity that does not have long term benefits.  It causes stress and prevents them from playing (an activity that has been shown to have health, emotional, social and cognitive benefits).

In truth, people remember what interests them and what is useful to them.

If the goal is testing to help inculcate the material into the long term memory of the student, it is not achieving its goal and should be stopped.

If the goal is to determine if the student knows the material, the pain, stress, and lack of accuracy ought to prompt us to look for other ways of evaluating knowledge.

google images

chana asked why the plishtim covered up avraham's wells if they could have used them. good q. r' hirsch does not address it. nor does a quick survey of mikraos gedolos.

google images are really valuable for showing pictures. we've used it for brimestone in sedom, fiery furnace and pillar of smoke in bris ben habesarim, dew in the brachos of eisav/yaakov, monument, and to show parsha ptucha and stuma.

chana zipped through shlishi of toldos. she resisted doing rishon of vayetze, since we are already up to sheni. but i think she needs more chazara. so we argued about that and i insisted, and her mood became dour. then we took a break before doing the 4 pesukim in rishon and the new pesukim, since she was getting bad-tempered. i put 10 min on the timer. then she got upset because for some reason she thought we were doing only 1 new pasuk. the one new pasuk had 3 new words, but the next 3 pesukim were easy so i wanted to do them. she fought that. i persisted again. she kind of cried a little but overall contained herself well. then i gave her another 10 min and we did rashi. she just read it and didn't translate it. even though i saw from the way she read that she needs a couple more sessions of translation, because she didn't pause at the right places which she would have done if she understood it. ("how do you know if she knows it if you don't give tests?")

all told i think chumash and rashi took about a half hour. but i didn't time it. calculating, i think it took about 45 min. when i asked chana, she said she felt like it took her 3 hrs.